May not be a big deal to you... BUT

[Old_Man_Istvan]

Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else. Our buckets at this point are basically DPS, Tanks, Healers. When the tank and healer are doing dps, it's even closer.

You may be a couple hundred dps lower than a pure dps class (hunter, mage, warlock, rogue) but for most players, the numbers will be close enough that a raid with a good Retadin and an okay rogue will see Ret on top.

This is a change in philosophy from the BC era, where we would engineer hybrid classes to be 25% to 30% and sometimes much lower than dps classes. -Ghostcrawler

Ive waited for that clarification for AGES, since 2.3 actually. Ive posted, petitioned, begged, flamed, everything. I tried to make a case that giving feedback is nearly impossible without knowing what Blizzard intends.

How can you say adding a Holy Whirlwind is too little or too much if you dont know what the goal of the design is? How do you know Ret showing up near bottom is wrong if you dont know what they intend? Most classes have the luxury of knowing this, warriors, druids, and others have had it spelled out where Blizzard intends them to be. But not paladins... ohhh nooooo. Making a statement about paladins is risky business thanks to our rabid community.

But thar she blows, that's the stuff, the skinny, the 411. Yes I am not engineered to be the best DPS, but I will be built to be competitive. I can live with that. "where we would engineer hybrid classes to be 25% to 30% and sometimes much lower than dps classes." I cannot live with.

Man, thats all I ever wanted to know, was that so hard? Yeeesh.

[Casca554]

That's how it should be.

[Old_Man_Istvan]

Also, fun fact!

Blizzard regards Hunters as the "Kings of DPS".

True Story

[Lully]

I hate hunters. But that's not a fun fact.

[Shananigans]

howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at?

[t i x i]

Lully wrote:

I hate hunters. But that's not a fun fact.

psh - hunters rule, everything else drools, get used to it!!!

:P

[Old_Man_Istvan]

Shananigans wrote:

howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at?

Pally forums actually

[Shananigans]

damn, itd be nice if theyd explain some shit to the rest of us, such as why mages are supposed to want spirit although they removed our talent to turn it into spell power

[Goodall]

Istvan wrote:

Shananigans wrote: howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at? Pally forums actually

That's why no one has seen it! There's so many tears to wade through to find the blizz posts.

[Casca554]

Goodall wrote:

Istvan wrote: Shananigans wrote: howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at? Pally forums actually That's why no one has seen it! There's so many tears to wade through to find the blizz posts.

The way has been cleared!

[Old_Man_Istvan]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[TheInfamousBug]

Casca554 wrote:

Goodall wrote: Istvan wrote: Shananigans wrote: howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at? Pally forums actually That's why no one has seen it! There's so many tears to wade through to find the blizz posts. The way has been cleared!

~Larry "The Bug" Meyers

[COBRA_Demetrious]

Casca554 wrote:

Goodall wrote: Istvan wrote: Shananigans wrote: howd you manage to pry that out of em? whered they post it at? Pally forums actually That's why no one has seen it! There's so many tears to wade through to find the blizz posts. The way has been cleared!

Long after the Hebrewadins were lead by Ghostcrawler through the QQ Sea...

Well, the story tells itself.

Needless to say, after being persecuted, prejudiced against and oppressed for millennia, it's no wonder they do back flips when the smallest shred of hope appears at the end of the tunnel.

[Kawa]

Psh, anyone remember when blizz openly stated that druids where never intended to reach >80% effectiveness at the class they were actively emulating? We were the poor mans "fill in the blank".
Can't find a real tank? Get a druid.
Can't get a real healer? Grab that druid.
One of your dps bail on you? Ask the druid, he won't care if the instance is half clear, he'll never get a group for this any other way....
Ok, ok, /end rant.
Actually, in all seriousness, the more I play hybrid classes, the more I understand why Blizz doesn't want to buff them to a full dps role. Pah Vee Pah. If you have something that can do as much dps as a "X" AND HEAL, why would use "X" in pvp? If my shammy wins a toe2toe slugfest, he spams some heals on himself and is right back in the action. Try that with a rogue or a warr, or anything else that isn't a healer. Druids? Pop some hots (in combat, why not?); either you have the mana/mana regen (resto/lazer-chicken) or you weren't using the mana anyway (ferals). Pallies are a little funky, rets and prots get jacked on the mana end. (Altho, imo; its due to overusing BoM and dps jugdements. I refer to my 3K dps is useless if you are dead theory, and recommend BoW and JoW, but that is just my opinion.) But noone can argue that BoP (or divine protection, if needed) + heal spam isn't cheap as hell. And holy doesn't have crazy dps, but they have a full week to kill you first. Two, if they blow some CD's. Second, why would anyone roll a pure healer, if they could roll a healer/dps mix that did both effectively. If they buff hybrids in a raid situation, the buff will carry over to PvP. Thus screwing whatever balance Blizz thinks is in the game already.

Wait I thought I "/ended rant"... Guess I started a new one. /end rant again